RealmIQ: SESSIONS with SETH HALLEN

In this episode of RealmIQ: Sessions, host Curt Doty speaks with Seth Hallen about AI’s impact on Hollywood and the media tech industry. Hallen shares insights on AI's historical parallels with past technological advancements, how AI is reshaping film production and distribution, and its implications for creatives. The conversation covers AI's potential to empower independent filmmakers, how Hollywood executives are cautiously embracing AI, and the challenges of adapting to economic shifts in the entertainment industry. They also discuss emerging storytelling formats, AI’s role in monetization, and the broader future of media consumption.

Topics Discussed:

1. AI’s Historical Context in Hollywood: Comparisons to past tech disruptions like talkies, agriculture mechanization, and digital transformation.
2. AI and Creativity: AI as a tool rather than a replacement for human creativity, particularly for writers and editors.
3. Hollywood’s Hesitancy Toward AI: Fears and gradual acceptance within studios, unions, and guilds.
4. The Rise of Independent Filmmaking: AI’s role in lowering barriers for aspiring creators.
5. AI in Marketing & Monetization: AI’s impact on advertising, audience engagement, and distribution models.
6. The Future of Media & Entertainment: Emerging storytelling formats (VR, immersive experiences, AI-generated content).
7. Hollywood's Economic Disruption: The shift from traditional revenue models to streaming, AI-driven personalization, and monetization challenges.
8. New Platforms & Media Consumption: The growing influence of YouTube, TikTok, and AI-driven interactive content.
9. The Role of AI in Film Editing & Production: AI’s potential in improving efficiency for filmmakers while maintaining creative integrity.
10. The Next Evolution in AI & Media: The unknown future of AI-driven storytelling, distribution, and interactive media.

Pull Quotes & Attributes:

1. "AI is just the next chapter of technological evolution in Hollywood—no different from any other shift in the past." – Seth Hallen
2. "We’re not talking about replacing people. We’re talking about redefining roles, as has always happened with new technology." – Seth Hallen
3. "AI wants to be creative, but the essence of creativity remains uniquely human." – Seth Hallen
4. "Hollywood has been slow to embrace AI, but the thaw is happening." – Curt Doty
5. "The barrier to entry for storytelling is lower than ever—AI will enable a new generation of filmmakers." – Seth Hallen
6. "Streaming disrupted Hollywood, not AI—but AI might be the key to fixing the economic model." – Seth Hallen
7. "People love movies. The way they consume them will change, but the love for storytelling remains constant." – Curt Doty
8. "Fear is not productive. Until we remove fear around AI in Hollywood, we won’t make real progress." – Seth

Transcript

Hi, I'm Curt Doty with RealmIQ, my AI consultancy, and this is our podcast, RealmIQ Sessions where we talk about everything, AI with international AI leaders and AI founders. Please give us a follow or subscribe. And today's guest is Seth Hall, an AI and media tech investor. And a media and entertainment technology industry leader is a member of the television academy and the past president of the Hollywood Professional Association.

His advocacy in taking is taking AI to new levels and he's committed to supporting AI in. Media tech startups, helping them secure funding, further develop their product roadmaps, gain visibility and build essential connections. He is a connector for sure. So welcome Seth. So glad to have you on our show. 

Thank you, Curt. Happy to be here.  Great. So  I've been following you for. for years. We've been connected  a decade, I think, on LinkedIn. I'm a former Hollywood guy. You're in the thick of Hollywood, and you have an interesting position because you have years of experience in the production side and the executive side in Hollywood,  and you've been an advocate, thankfully, for the adoption of AI in Hollywood, and you've clearly articulated many of the reasons why.

It's been slow to happen but also are promoting the fact that it is happening now. So  I'd love to ask you to elaborate on your kind of evolution and understanding and advocacy of AI. Certainly within the film and media and entertainment industry. Right?  Yeah. Sure. I am in the thick of it. I live in Hollywood.

I work in Hollywood. And I love this, the, the, the town of Hollywood and the industry that's known as Hollywood. And you know,  AI certainly has taken the industry by storm in a sense, it's become the top headline, it's become the main topic of discussion, and has certainly caused a lot of emotional reaction to it, whether you're excited about it, or you're afraid of it it's definitely been a very heated topic, and I just like to think that, and we can get into this more, you know, AI, as far as I've observed, and I've done a lot of deep dives in it, and  have had the pleasure of, of interacting with a lot of super smart people that, that really understand it, and are now using it, it's just the next chapter of technological evolution that is not really unlike every other chapter since the beginning of the film industry, and this is just the next one. 

I did read your four part article on on this and I've written a lot about.  The history as well. And so we align on all those things. But yeah, so take the the talkies going into, you know, the silent film era going into the talkies, you know, I like to tell the story of you know, there was a small orchestra or at least an organist or a pianist and every theater across the country that would play to those silent movies.

And when the talkies came around with a soundtrack on it and a music track, all those people were suddenly unemployed and, you know, there were suicides. You know, it was really a crisis. But Hollywood marched on and created new jobs, right? And, and, and, and sound engineering and, you know, new technology of how to do all that with the movies.

So they weren't just talking, they were like, you know, full on. Yeah. You know, productions with music and voice. So  that's just one example.  I fully agree. And there's so many of those, but if, even if you zoom out outside of entertainment and you just think about humans and technology in general, I mean, ever since I guess the invention of the wheel and going all through, you know, every iteration I like to talk about.

You know, the, the mechanization of agriculture in the late 1800s and, and how, you know, human beings had to pick everything. And then all of a sudden these machines were  engineered to do a lot of the, the, the heavy lifting of, of picking corn or, or whatever the case may be. And, and of course, you know, you need a lot less pickers, but, but actually, I think the, the.

Study shows that there were actually four to five times more jobs after the  mechanization of agriculture because you needed, maybe you didn't need as many pickers, but you needed people to sort the corn and then you needed people to  work on the machines, build new machines, fix the machines. There were all sorts of new tasks that required literally just kind of redefined jobs.

And that's what we're talking about here. We're not talking about replacing people. I don't believe that at all. I, I, I do believe just like every technological turning point in this industry and out that tasks get replaced. That's why we build tools and technology it's to automate and, and the tasks that usually are the mundane, repetitive manual tasks that we don't like to do in the first place.

And there are roles that were created. That may be focused on that group of tasks that if those tasks are replaced by machines, then that role might not be needed anymore. But again, no different from anything that's happened in our business through the years. And what always happens is.  There are new roles, and there's new opportunities, and people learn to do new things, and that's always how it works out, and that's no different this time.

Yeah, I mean, think back to the Gutenberg press and typesetting and, you know, then the computer, and it's like, yeah, who wants to set type the old way? Newspapers certainly don't, so yeah, it's just the natural evolution. But AI and film has been very controversial and, and you're right. I don't think it's displaced jobs yet and the hesitancy and the fear.

Has been around certainly the acting portion of it you know, we'll, we'll avatars of actors, replace them and, you know, lost revenue. That's a guild and a union issue that maybe got worked out in the final contract, I'm not sure, but,  and then the other is writing screenwriters you know, IP around properties  and.

You know, there are some, finally some cases being reaching fruition with some of those judgments on can you copyright something that was worked on by a human using these tools. And, you know, so that's an ongoing battle but yet. The world is using all this stuff and Hollywood is slowly embracing it.

I think, I think the thought is happening. And can you tell us a little bit about that thought that's happening and what movements do you see in Hollywood that, you know, starts to embrace this?  Yeah, I love this topic and I personally, I'm in the camp that.  Machines, AI  in our foreseeable future will not  replace the real essence of and core of human creativity.

I think that, take writers for example and writing. There's something about human experience and human imagination and inspiration that is really uniquely human and that experiences, those human and emotional experiences that humans have are sort of the inspiration for amazing Thank you.

Creative works, and I don't see machines in the near future being able to replace that. I think they can be amazing co pilots and amazing assistance for that and can speed up some of the conceptualization processes on on a creative in a creative process, but I don't see it really replacing the core essence of creativity across the board acting.

Writing any, any sort of creative work again, you know, a lot of what AI can do looks a lot like creativity and, and it's, and it's shockingly good and it is very useful. I mean, it is creative in ways and it can help.  It wants to be creative, it sure does, but I think what's happening, and this is where technology has always played a role is it elevates human output and human process and human things like human creativity.

And I think we're on another chapter. I think it's, it's going to again, unleash and unlock and elevate humans to the next level. So I'm seeing that to answer your question. There are an amazing community of filmmakers and storytellers and creatives that are using these tools to help create visual stories.

I mean, what are visual stories? Visual stories are  you, you have a storyteller that has this image, this vision, the sequence  of, of visualizations in their head that they want to be recreate  on some sort of form of media so that other people.  Can  experience that right? I mean, that's that's it. And I like to talk about how that started in the caves with the cave paintings.

And in fact, I'm doing a presentation on that next week at HBA. But that's really the essence. And all these AI tools are doing is helping enable storytellers that have these visions in their head, get them out in a form that they can share. And, and but that, but that essence of that  The creativity and the story itself is coming from the human and these tools are just helping them get that again into a media.

Yeah, so I appreciate the fact that Hollywood's finally embracing it because I'm a firm believer and I've written a lot about this is that human centered AI  and further than that creative centered AI.  Is where the technology will reach the next level, because I am very interested that in the hands of a seasoned film editor with 30 years experience in a heck of a filmography takes advantage of these tools and, and, and.

And  uses them as tools  and, and, and what fantastic results are they getting, you know, because they have a lens and experience and storytelling and editing, you know, editors are the ones that tell the final story of the picture. It's not the director, right? Even though director is final cut, but it's really that editor.

So. you know, how are, you know, they using these tools to be more efficient because there's a downward pressure on budgeting and for films the whole Marvel thing, you know, I don't know how that, how long that's sustainable.  And so I'm, I'm interested in,  you know, where, where  will there be a proliferation?

Of new films and independent films with aspiring filmmakers having access to these tools, not only to do pre visualization, but help in editing and writing. So it gets something to market or at least in the festival circuit, right? I do think so. I do think that we are on the cusp  of a new chapter of independent storytelling, independent filmmaking.

Long form content that that is that will be consumed by by mass audiences. I think that's a really good thing. I think that the barrier to entry to to be able to tell visual stories has been pretty high. And I think that this technology is helping enable. And a new generation of, of storytellers and, and a new generation of consumers and audiences to, to enjoy those stories.

I think there's another aspect to it, not just the tools that help create the pictures and the sounds and the music and all of those things more efficiently. But  I think there is an aspect to this, which is  the  framework to be able to.  Engage with fans to build audiences to monetize that content.

We're also, I believe on the cusp of the next generation of, of that kind of technology that will help really enable the storytellers in a meaningful way to essentially earn a living telling those stories and in a, in a different way and in a meaningful way. And I think that the traditional streaming structures and distribution and, and studios.

Well, we'll obviously continue to play, you know, an enormous role as they always have. But I think that in a few years from now, the world looks a bit different and I think better across the board for for everyone.  Yeah, I think with the, certainly the rise of YouTube in the living room the TV being the main platform now that YouTube is experienced in how the creator economy is now infiltrating into the Hollywood economy, coupling that with the advantages of the use of AI and the low hanging fruit of marketing. 

All of a sudden, you know, marketing budgets plunge and there's an efficiency and a reach that can be done with, you know, one person, not a team maybe not within the studio, or maybe one person within the studio. You know, so that type of opportunity, little disruption I think will be fascinating to watch.

Because, you know,  I don't know if you agree with me, but Hollywood has been bloated. They've gone through a number of layoffs over the years with the, you know, consolidation and mergers acquisitions.  Yeah, I think that that's, I think that's driven by the economic disruption. You mentioned my article series.

I, I focus a lot on that economic disruption. I think bloated, you know, is a word that You know, you could use, I think that connotates that there was needless, you know unnecessary spend that happened. I think that that spend that led to the bloating, you know, was necessary at the time, but, but what happens when, you know, obviously industries and supply chains get disrupted by new economic models where the incumbents can't catch up and, and adapt in time, then there is a lot of excess spend because the revenues go away and therefore, you know,  And we've been seeing a lot of those adjustments in the industry.

And I do think that the economics the economic sort of system  of traditional film and television creation and distribution and monetization is, is ongoing absolute fundamental transformative change at the moment. And it needs to. Adopt in a, in a, in an enormous way and it's really meaningful way.

Oh, yeah. And that disruption didn't happen because of AI. No, no. Yeah. If anything, AI is going to help with all of those core challenges, which to your point, it had nothing to do with AI other than. You could argue, I kind of rethought that for a minute. I think the only exception to that AI hasn't caused these problems is  companies like YouTube and TikTok for many years have adopted AI powered recommendation and, you know, fan engagement technologies to really dial it in and then use also those recommendation engines and, and.

Related technology to serve very specific set of advertisements to those consumers almost on a personal basis and have been able to monetize that significantly. So therefore, taking tens and tens of billions of dollars per year out of what used to come to the traditional. Linear television advertising industry.

So, television's going through some things.  Yeah, for sure. For sure. And again, we have to look at these core economic disruptions to really understand what the problem is and then figure out how to fix them.  Yeah, I, I see them less as problems. I see them as opportunities. And what can you learn from YouTube?

You know, the people who are watching YouTube,  they don't mind pre roll, they don't mind mid roll, they don't mind end roll and they don't mind, you know, little bits of prompts happening over the content that they're watching, they don't mind short form content and it's like, okay, I mean. That is pervasive.

And what is Hollywood, you know, learning from that? And I think they're starting to put full movies up now on YouTube. I forget which studio just announced that maybe it's Warner brother. I forget. But yeah, so  it's an interesting shift.  TVs in the crosshairs, certainly. People love movies. I, you know, I was, I'm a former universal creative exec.

So, you know, the line there, and I was in home entertainment. So the line there was people love movies no matter what device they're watching it on. There is this love of movies and that will never end. I believe that. So, I mean, I, I believe that Hollywood does have a future.  But they got to get with the program in terms of  these new technologies, new opportunities, new reach, new types of engagement.

And you know, I've been in an interactive content space for over 10 years and I, I. You know, love that. And I think new experiences, new engagement this is what people want. And that's what the new generation wants because that's how they're experiencing content on Tik TOK on YouTube. So it's just.

Tapping into what's already happening. If you're, if you're not analyzing user behavior to alter your product roadmap, right, you're ignoring a major factor in how you're relevant in the future. Fully agree. And I love talking to you about this stuff, Curt, because, and you're, and you're, you're, you're dead, right?

It's. Tremendous opportunity. These challenges, there's always opportunity and challenges. And this is an enormous challenge that also has equally as enormous opportunities across it. And and to, to, to your, your point, you know, television is going through a challenging moment. And again, I,  you know, television never had a problem until what? 

Well, until Netflix said we're going to drop the whole season right now.  And that was, yeah, that was part of it, but really, and it was, it was the streamers because television,  the television show. Was conceived as a sponsor driven  program.  I mean, that was what it was all about. It was, you know, that's where the soap operas come from because they would, they would sell soap, you know during these shows and, and it was, you know, for years and years and years, and you and I are probably the same generation.

I mean, we grew up, there was, there was. Commercials. That's just the way it was. There was 22 minutes of programming in a 30 minute show. Right? Because the rest of it was commercials. And that was just the way things were. And there were commercial breaks. And you would go grab a drink or do your thing. But what happened is, there was this all you can eat model.

Everybody gets used to no commercials anymore. And now if there's a thing with a commercial, you get irritated by it. We never used to. But the problem with that is, it was Absolutely, fundamentally necessary for the economics to have that commercial revenue, the streaming, all you can eat model. Is extremely difficult to make become extinct now,  that's right, and now we're going back to, you know, the sort of traditional model where there's television, you know shows with, with commercials and that's driving revenues.

I mean, that's, it does need to go back to that because the economics of all these very expensive shows just can't, you know, sustain.  Yeah, yeah, we also came from the generation where a TV show was 20, 26 episodes, right? Right. And there, there was a whole, um, ecosystem around pilot season, right? And all the, all the only dialed in all the, or the hovering, what are they, the stage moms, bringing their kids to Hollywood.

Rent a condo and cast them and try to get cast in some of the new TV shows that are happening. I don't know if that's happening anymore, but  just a huge cultural shift in terms of that whole ecosystem and process and world of television and syndicate. Yeah, what happened to syndication, right? Like  That was, that was when a TV show could really make money was like, Hey, hit your hundred episodes.

Right. And the writers and the actors and everyone else, all the, all those checks that would come in. Right. And you know, like I think well, Matthew from friends who just recently passed away, tragically, I think it was still making maybe 6 million a year, just from friends. Right. So,  And then you talk to other actors who are in Netflix series and they say, yeah, I got like a day rate and no residuals. 

But I think Netflix is going back to kind of that performance or going back to a performance model in their compensation. So, you know, there's, there's these, these models are all changing. And, you know, everyone wanted to be on Netflix until they realized, yeah, there's no residuals. And then it's like,  so that means like Nicole Kidman has to make eight movies, eight movies or series a year with Netflix just to keep her friends employed, which is an altruistic goal.

 So tell me about some of the events that you speak at and what's happening with the leadership within Hollywood and are they receptive? You know, this conversation now goes beyond like actors and writers and directors and editors to now the executives within the studio system. How are they embracing it all?

Are they fearful or are they embracing this?  I think my observation is they're embracing it. I think that many are still afraid to talk about it because it's such a hot topic, and there's so much fear still on  among certain communities that they depend on, such as the creative segments of film and television.

And so they have to be careful about how they talk about it, but I, I do think that that kind of veil of fear needs to be lifted in order for us to really get traction and really embrace it, just put it all on the table, lean in, find a way to make this sustainable, find a way to help it drive more revenues back into Hollywood and, and find real sustainable economic infrastructures that, that, that enable again All of the, the, the people involved in the production and post production supply chain to thrive.

And and that's why yes, about, you know, these events and, you know, I've, I've written some articles and I'm outspoken about some things. And so I'm being asked to, to. For my voice to be heard in, in these rooms, I was recently asked to, to come they, they flew me up to Ottawa, Canada, and I spoke at the Canadian Media Producers Association, annual event called prime time.

They're talking about this. I was at the Silicon Valley video summit also a few weeks ago. I moderated a panel at, cES 2025 is a digital Hollywood panel and and then HBA tech retreat next week and the television academy AI summit in March. So I I'm really trying to work hard to try to see what I can do from my little corner.

Can I move some needles, some minds into thinking about this in a, in a more productive way because fear is not productive. Let's, let's figure out sustainable paths forward for all of us, because until we do that, and until people can really speak openly about this, and you know, there's either people that are afraid, or there's people that are afraid of the people who are afraid.

As soon as we reduce all of that eliminate all of that fear we're still going to be sort of stuck and, and inhibited growth inhibited.  Yeah, but I think the creative community continues to move forward.  It's really the executive.  Well,  you know, that's an interesting discussion that you and I can have.

I mean, segments of the creative community are not moving forward. Okay. There are segments of the greater community that are very afraid, don't want to look at the tools, don't even want to talk about the tools, and they have really adverse reactions to the, to the word AI. I have very good friends in the creative community that even me, you know, having known some of these people for decades, I can't get.

Them engaged in this discussion and they trust me otherwise. Right. But I can't get them. There are members of, you know, a smaller group that's really leaning into it passionately. And that's good. You always need that. But again the executives on one hand,  I think there are executives leaning into it.

I think overall the executives are trying to figure out, you know, really how this can benefit them. But again.  In the press and in public, they, they, they are very careful about talking about it. So it appears that they're not. Yeah. Yeah.  Crazy. Well, what's interesting when I talk about the rest of the world and the creative community outside of Hollywood, I believe that you know, AI filmmaking and AI filmmakers, you're seeing a lot of short form content. 

Not as many feature length films quite yet. Although it will come but I believe it's a new art form, and I think there is the path of least resistance for these creators to follow, because if you remember back in the day, and  I know you're maybe the same age as me, if not younger MTV. Hello.

Invented the music video. All of a sudden it was the coolest thing to work on a music video, be a music video director. So, you know and it was a short form kind of, it was the length of a song, right? All this production and creativity went into making it viewed 24 hours a day on MTV, kind of a new distribution.

And I think we're at the same inflection point with, with AI, because if we just recognize the fact that it's a new art form versus trying to be AI filmmaking, which is obviously threatening some other community in Hollywood, but Madison Avenue entertainment the music industry.  They can full on and they are starting to embrace this.

And, and I think that's something to watch and see how that influences Hollywood because  it's just a freeway to the open road of creativity and non sequitur. Type of creativity that can happen in a music video or a commercial for a tennis shoe or, you know, or basketball shoe. I mean, it's incredible the opportunity and it's happening and I think that's exciting and I, and I think that's.

A forum where AI in video can thrive. I agree. I think I want to pile on to that. I agree with, with everything that you're saying. I think what's super interesting to me. And I think about this almost every day. And I, and I, I have the pleasure of meeting a lot of founders, startup founders that are building  interesting technologies, very interesting takes on, on what the future is.

I mean, that's what visionary founders do. They, they, they think about a future that doesn't exist yet. And, and they build to that and to hear some super smart people and listen to them about what they think is fascinating to me, I do think as a pylon to what you said, I think it's  a situation and a scenario that we cannot currently even conceive of right now.

You and I could talk all day long and I'm not sure we can, we, it, it's something like the MTV cable TV  sort of example, but it's. It's entirely different. You know, it's, Ima imagine going back into the nineties and trying to imagine YouTube, you couldn't because so many things had to happen before you got to YouTube.

And I think for many years. Yes. For many years. Yeah. Yeah. And, and no one would've imagined, you know, the YouTube of today, you know, back then of course. And and or Netflix or any of these things. And so, if you think about how that was unimaginable back then, because he didn't, it didn't happen yet.

And so many had to, things had to come before it,  what things today. Can we not imagine, but they're going to be part of our lives, you know, five, 10 years from now, and that's what I'm super excited about being on the, on the front lines and helping enable, yeah, cutting edge.  And I, I think  all of that,  there's still storytelling.

At the core of all that people like stories,  if they're short stories, it doesn't matter. There's some type of hook or engagement. Hopefully they can exist within truth, whatever that means today. Not getting into politics, but I, I, I think Immersion, interactivity, storytelling, challenging the norm, challenging the conventions of distribution new forms of distribution, new experiences.

I think that's all on the table and it just requires.  Big thinkers, creative out of the box thinkers to imagine that world and how it all comes together right in some type of form, some type of platform, some type of new engagement. And I think that's exciting. Very exciting. Because, you know, there's always been these obstacles to getting a story through Hollywood, right?

And it's just like, you give up at some point. Or they buy a screenplay and it just sits, they sit on it because, yeah, you know, we're going to sit on that for 10 years.  For the right time. It's like, it's just no opportunity. So this is challenging all those traditional ways of getting a story out into the world and empowering a new class a new generation of storytellers.

Maybe they use AI, maybe they don't, maybe they just use AI to help them or it's completely AI.  I'm not sure, but I'm, you know, I'm, I'm tracking and watching and, and watching, watching it happen and supporting it. However I can, because I think it's cool. Yeah. And a lot of what we're talking about today is sort of the traditional Hollywood product, which are, you know, long form scripted narrative film and.

Television episodic, but, you know, I like to think of storytelling broader and you and I, you know, agree on this as well. Well, you know, when we talk about games, we talk about VR, we talk about live immersive, you know, sort of sphere like experiences. There's a new relatively new experience here in LA called Cosm where it's you know, you watch games and other. 

immersive experiences, but with other people, you're in a room. So you're not isolated inside a VR headset. You're, you're, you're enjoying this with people. So I think those are all other forms, other forms of media for storytelling and immersive storytelling and sharing stories and, and consume, consuming them.

And so when we think about. How all of these technological advancements could play into all of those areas. And by the way, including music. So any concert you go to, there's tremendous visual storytelling happening along, you know, along with the artists, whether it's a backdrop or, you know, somewhere on stage, you know, separate, you know, absolutely.

Absolutely connected. The possibilities are there.  That's right. So, so really when we think of now about storytelling, I think, I do think we have to look at the much bigger picture because these technologies will play into multiple sort of farms media of, of storytelling.  Yeah, I mean I was a leader in the format wars between HD DVD and Blu ray, and so I was I was there myself.

Yeah, I was helping invent new experiences of how to interact with movies on your big screen. Yeah, you were at Universal, they were the HD DVD camp. Yeah, they were the leader,  and I was And Paramount. And Paramount Warner  Brothers on both sides. That's right. I remember that vividly. Oh my god, yeah. But I, yeah, I worked with Ken Graffio who was,  had the coalition of ACDVD, and so I was helping him lead the marketing efforts, and then I was leading the kind of interactive kind of what can you do with this technology in terms of enhancing a movie.

And it was all  Kind of premature, you know, there wasn't a market for that type of engagement, but we were doing really cool shit that, you know, eventually just came on to social media and, you know, that was happening actually before the birth of touch. Actually, you know, yeah, but isn't that something we have this insatiable need to continue to expand and enrich.

The immersiveness and the experience of stories. I mean, that'll never end. Some of them don't work. Some of them do, but it finds its way. And I find that so fascinating. You know, and, and, and you know, how long Curt, you know, have we heard about Interactive television where you can, you know, shoppable content, you know, real time.

I mean, that's, I think I started hearing that about that literally 25 years ago, maybe more and but, but now there are some interesting startups that are leaning into it because, you know, with machine learning and AI that can recognize objects on screen. I mean, you can really map. Now certain other, you know, immersive experiences, whether it's shopping or some other interactive experience and in more meaningful ways.

So even though that's been attempted for so long and hasn't really caught on, we're, we're at a, you know, at a place where some of those things might. Well, yeah. So, and I was, when I was at university, I was pitched by all those companies cause they wanted to be in that, in that space. And the problem was that, oh yeah.

Buy the shirt that Jennifer's wearing in, in And then it was like, okay, but shouldn't Jennifer be compensated  a great love at a high level for selling shirts now that she wore in a show? And that it was the talent deals, those talent deals that prohibited that technology from moving forward.

But now. We have we have fake people. We have synthetic twins and influencers  selling shit, right? You know, holding up products and it looks totally believable. And it's a, it's a crazy time for all of that. But, and maybe that technology wasn't for Hollywood. It was for, you know, TikTok, you know, when they finally came out.

So again, it's finding the right platform. But there is this thirst and desire to innovate. And it's frustrating when you're one of those people who, you know, you're just doing it a little ahead of,  you know, the times in which it could be accepted and or the right platform. So,  but we persist, right? 

Exactly. Yeah, no, I, I, I'm, I'm fascinated by our insatiable need. To continue to improve tools and technology, to tell these stories, to get others engaged, to, you know, create commercial, you know, viability around all of this and, and that'll never end well, that'll never end blave, blave. Blame the early humans that lived in caves because they started it.

Those were the first, the little twigs and, and, and animal fur  and things that they used with berry juice to, to paint and, and, and coal to, to paint those images on it. That was their PowerPoint, right? That was their, those were their tools and technology. Absolutely. And it hasn't It hasn't stopped since.

And so it's, it's an exciting time for all of that and, and can't wait to continue to be a part of it.  So we're getting to the end of our podcast. I just wanted to give you the opportunity to plug any event or where people can find you and continue to read and listen to your thoughts on, on the subject.

Yeah, thank you. So the HPA tech retreat is starting next week, which is February 17th out in Palm Springs. It is sold out, but. There will be, you know, some byproduct coverage on all the things that are discussed there and the needles that are moved in that room, which happen every year upcoming in March, there is the television Academy AI summit.

Unfortunately, it is. Only for television Academy members. But that's coming up and then of course, you know, we're into NAB season after that and so forth, but for anybody interested in the things I'm writing and the things I'm talking about best places, my LinkedIn.  Page, which is just my name, Seth Hallen.

Look me up. I'm, I think I'm the only Seth Hallen on LinkedIn. Okay. And you are a unique individual. So thanks Seth for joining us and thanks to all of you for tuning in and catch more of our Realm IQ sessions on your favorite podcast platforms, please follow and smash that subscribe button. You can also follow us on LinkedIn and now blue sky people.

Yes. Blue sky is happening. Thanks again, Seth.  Appreciate your time. Thank you so much, Curt.