RealmIQ: SESSIONS with Audrey Chia

In this episode of Realm IQ Sessions, host Curt Doty speaks with Audrey Chia, a growth marketer, content strategist, and LinkedIn influencer based in Singapore. Audrey shares her journey in AI, her expertise in conversion copywriting, and insights on AI adoption, ethics, and future trends. They discuss the role of AI in marketing, the importance of human-centered and creative-centered AI, ethical concerns with AI platforms, and strategies for businesses and individuals to integrate AI effectively.

Topics Covered

• Audrey’s Journey into AI & Copywriting
  • Launching her consultancy, Close With Copy, alongside AI adoption
  • Embracing AI instead of fearing job displacement
  • Using AI to optimize content creation and copywriting
• AI & Marketing ROI
  • Saving 70% more time and achieving 3X ROI with AI
  • AI’s impact on conversion-focused advertising
  • Efficiency vs. efficacy in AI-powered marketing
• The Role of Human and Creative-Centered AI
  • The importance of humans in the loop
  • Why creative professionals elevate AI beyond generic outputs
  • AI as a tool to enhance—not replace—expertise
• AI Adoption & Business Strategy
  • The challenge of corporate AI adoption
  • Why top-down AI integration fails & the power of mid-level champions
  • How businesses should view AI as a productivity enhancer, not just a cost-cutter
• Testing & Choosing AI Tools
  • The importance of tool agnosticism
  • Audrey’s go-to AI tools:
    • Sybil for transcribing and analyzing meetings
    • You.com for testing different AI models
    • Google’s Notebook LM for digesting large content sources
  • The evolving quality of AI models in copywriting
• AI Ethics & Data Privacy
  • Concerns about AI tools training on user data
  • Risks of integrating AI into everyday software (e.g., Microsoft Copilot, Google AI)
  • The need for ethical AI policies and transparency
  • The impact of DeepSeek and how it challenges Western AI platforms
• The Future of AI & Job Markets
  • AI will replace jobs but also create new ones
  • Why upskilling is crucial for AI-era professionals
  • The need for structured AI adoption in organizations
• The AI Investment Bubble vs. Adoption Bubble
  • The difference between AI’s financial hype and real-world adoption
  • How investment trends differ from actual AI innovation
• Final Thoughts & Call to Action
  • Audrey’s consultancy (Close With Copy) helps businesses optimize their marketing with AI
  • Where to follow Audrey (LinkedIn, website)
  • Encouragement to follow Realm IQ Sessions across platforms

Pull Quotes & Attributions

🗣 "I knew I had two options: fight the current or ride the

Transcript

Audrey Chia Transcript

 Hi, I am Curt Doty with RealmIQ, my AI consultancy, and this is our podcast, RealmIQ Sessions, where we talk about everything AI with international AI leaders and AI founders. Please give us a follow or subscribe. Today's guest. Is one of those AI influencers. Audrey Chia, who's a growth marketer, a content strategist, and a major LinkedIn influencer coming all the way from Singapore.

Welcome, Audrey. I'm a big fan and I'm so excited you're joining us today.  

Thank you for having me, Curt. I am super excited to be here as.  

Awesome. Well, I appreciate you spending the time and I know it's your morning. It's my evening and somehow, we connected and it's all, it's all really good. So, I've been following you over the last probably year and a half on LinkedIn and watched all your demos and interviews and you're, you have such a.

Vibrant spirit and positivity about you. And it's no wonder that you're so famous and so important within the AI community. So, know that I'm an adoring fan boy. 

Thank you for that. It means a lot to me.  

So, tell me, you know, two years ago when this all started, at least on the generative AI side what, what were you experiencing?

Where were you in your career? What were you thinking was going to happen with this new AI stuff and how it would somehow supercharge you and make you famous all over the world? Did you even? Anticipate that  

I would have never dreamt of this day, to be honest, And an interesting fact is that when I basically started using ai, it was the same time where I launched my consultancy close with coffee.

So, it was so timely that I left my day job, and I said, you know what? I'm going to start my own thing. And then AI came along and at that point in time it was.  Utterly terrifying but also very exciting because I knew I had two options, right? One would be to, you know, fight the current and the other would be to ride the tide.

And because it was so timely and because I'm a solopreneur, I knew that I really had to learn how to leverage it in order to pull ahead. So instead of fearing it or feeling like, you know, this is going to take over my job, I had to turn it into my advantage, and then I started posting content that is related to AI and copywriting.

Because nobody was doing it, and it was so new at that point in time. So that's how it all started.  

Yeah, well, that's fascinating. And I, I did see a statistic on your LinkedIn profile where on the A. I. Side. You're you use bespoke A. I. Content systems that save 70 percent more time with three times increase in R.

O. I. Now, R. O. I. Is kind of this crazy thing that, you know, some companies who adopted A. I. Are not finding the IRA finding the ROI and other vendors are saying 10 X, right? And I appreciate the fact that you tempered expectations by saying three X and increase in ROI.  So can you tell me a bit about.

Those numbers that those KPIs and how that's working for you. And, and, and, and is it true 70, 70 percent more time, 3X increase in ROI.  

Yeah, I think that's a great question, right? One thing that a lot of people do wrongly when they apply AI is they use AI for the sake of it and they don't frame it in a context, right?

So, they're like, there are 10 tools, let's implement all 10 tools and see what happens. But in my case, I'm a conversion copywriter. My mandate is to help my clients to earn more money. And that's true copy, right? So, I run ads, for example, which then helps them to get more conversions. In the past, creating an ad would have taken a lot more time because you need to do your deep audience research, understand your competitors, understand their value proposition.

And then even when you're crafting the ads, there is basically You need to spend quite some time coming up with different messaging angles, different content and copy.  With the use of AI, you can use AI at every single stage of the process. So, coming up with an ad is perhaps, you know, a seven to eight stage process.

And imagine using AI to streamline each of these processes. And by the end of it, you don't just get, for example, five sets of ads, you get like 30 sets of ads, for example, that you can quickly and rapidly run in a shorter amount of time. So, the ROI can be in terms of like time savings, productivity, ads that you run and the results that you get because you're so fast and you are generating so much content that is still of quality because there's a human in the loop.

So really, it's the balance of your own knowledge in your own, you know, expertise as a copywriter and then just turbo charging it with the help of AI to get things done a lot faster. 

Okay, so I get it now. So yeah, there's like many times X in terms of the time savings, but your goal, and tell me if I'm wrong, is to help your client earn more money.

And, and Not necessarily focus on efficiency, but efficacy. And I think that's a distinction that's often forgotten, right?  And so, I, I love that distinction. You talked about humans in the loop, so I, I'm a very firm believer in human centered AI. I come from a design background. I am a designer.

And so, I’ve embraced that philosophy. And so, as we enter what is human centered AI.  I actually have gone a step further and I'm an advocate for creative centered AI, CC AI, because I believe that creative people, whether they're writers, artists, designers, editors, filmmakers they're the ones that are going to uplift this technology to a point.

Where we get out of this kind of vanilla stuff that's pervasive throughout the internet with people just experimenting and playing. Right. But it's the real creative people with tasks, tasks, driven, purpose, driven creations with this technology are showing fantastic results. They don't necessarily.

Share it on LinkedIn every day. They're doing it for their clients, right? Or for themselves. And so, I believe in that community and, and, and, and those people lifting up you know, these fantastic results that we can get from the software. So how, as you do a lot of instruction, it's all different types of people with your workshops and lectures.

What are you telling them? About this human in the loop and how to stay human throughout this whole process.  

Yeah, firstly, I love what you said about, you know, being creator centric, right? Like, as a creative, I think what people don't realize is that people who maybe leverage AI tools, right? If you have a creative background and you're trying to create an output, it usually is a lot better than someone without that same background experience and expertise because of the vision, right?

And that vision comes from here, the mind.  And that's you giving AI heart, soul, creativity, and using it as a tool to get you there. Whereas for people who may not have that vision what they're going to do is they're just in the experimentation.  They may not have the right terminologies; they may not have the right prompts to get there because they don't know what they're looking for.

It's exactly the same in copywriting. So, if I were to prompt AI and ask for headlines, it will be very different from a non-copywriter prompting for headlines. If both of us can get a hundred different headlines, but who is going to be the one who is able to shortlist and say, I think these three headlines are going to work better.

The person probably with a lot more experience and expertise who has put in the work to refine your craft. So, like yourself, right, since you are a creative, you would have spent. I was just, you know, creating and really learning and absorbing, right? And I think that's the, the important human part. So when I talk to my clients and share about putting the humans back in the loop, it's always the perspective of you need to firstly have enough expertise in an area or build the foundations In an area, and then when you layer AI, it then brings your work up, but if you rely on AI to just get you to the end output, without questioning or challenging the process, then you're going to get very vanilla content. 

Yes.  I will. I will also say sometimes it's shitty content. Vanilla is a very nice word. So, I, yeah, I love how you're speaking because, you know you know, all of a sudden, two years ago you had all kinds of people saying, I'm an AI expert.  Look what I'm doing. Right. And they were either.  18 years old with no work experience in their life.

And they're the AI experts in, in what, how are you helping with my business? If you've never been in business, right. And so, I, I think it, it took a while for. Certainly, the creative community to embrace, you know, what, what is just a tool, get over the fear of the dystopian future promised by Hollywood and play with these tools and, and play with purpose with a specific outcome, right?

Because we're all creators are curious, but you know, they're also task oriented because I had an idea and I'm going to try to do it. Yeah, because I'm expecting an outcome, right? It's a lot different than, Oh, what does this do? Right? And, and the, Hey, look what I made. I'm going to put it up on LinkedIn or YouTube.

It's like. Oh, man. So, we had to go through all that in our doom scrolling every day. But the evolution over the last two years has been some crazy, crazy ass people with mad skills originally taking this, these things, certainly in video, right? AI and film and video and just doing just mind blowing.

Things that you go, Oh my God, this is like so cool and it's inspiring. But you know, those people using those tools were video effects, editors, video effects, artists, CG artists. They're like, they understand the complexity about lighting and, you know, character rigging, light rigging, and all these things that are so complicated that the average person just knows nothing about.

Yeah, and they're able to fine tune things to the point where it’s completely believable and realistic and, and again, elevating the, the, the platform to people who will stand up and notice and say, okay, in the hands of the right people, what a powerful technology. Now, you being a copywriter originally.

Right.  You, you have mastered how to be effective, not only your own work, but also how to teach others to be effective. 10 X, 30 X, whatever with their own work. So that's very inspirational.  And so, and I, and I, I believe you're fairly agnostic meaning You're not necessarily pushing one platform.

I see you playing with all kinds of platforms and say, Hey, this, this platform just came out. It's pretty cool. Here's what I did, which is very cool. And I believe that people created people like you who are.  Independent and not working for Adobe, let's say you can stay objective and provide valuable insights, good and bad about various tools which I think is very informative.

And so, I appreciate. The fact that you are agnostic and, and help educate people on what's coming out now what had come out, what, what are your go to tools? So, so that said, what are your go to tools that you could recommend? 

Yeah, so like what you said, right? I love testing different tools only because the AI landscape is changing so quickly and There are for example chat GPT two years ago, right?

I would say that it wasn't that great in copywriting it's super AI like but two years later My friends who are copywriters are saying wow, it's writing better than a junior to mid weight copywriter Confidently even without you know, very long prompts, which is amazing how it has evolved, right?  So, one tool will never will not always be you know, the best for a certain purpose It will evolve, and other tools could catch up and they could for example Be focused on e commerce, which then becomes a new niche by itself, right?

Or healthcare, like a new niche by itself. So, if you don't test the tools, you won't be able to know how to get the best results. So, another example would be, for example, Google Launch Notebook LM. It's a super powerful tool. If you haven't checked it out, what it does is it turns, you know, large pieces of content, for example, your medical journals, your PDFs.

You know, research papers and then turns it into digestible bits of information. Now, you would wonder who would use a tool like that. And you might think that, oh, it could perhaps be for someone in academia, right? And that would be the first use case that you would think of.  But there are so many other ways to use it.

So, if I wanted to pick up accounting, I could then upload, you know, Documents or books of accounting, right? And then turn it into a podcast. And that allows me to digest that information on the way to work, right? So those are brilliant use cases. It's all about how you use the tool. So, I love testing tools with a specific use case in mind, instead of just using it for the sake of it.

In my case, I use tools, for example, Sybil, which helps me to transcribe meeting minute notes. And this is multi-pronged, right? Because with that transcription, I can A, understand my audience insights. I can B, understand my sales prospects pain points. Number C, I can combine everything, right? And then put it back into ChatGPT and then craft a landing page.

One tool, multiple use cases. Very powerful if you know how to use it. So, there's one such tool that I like. Another tool that I love is called You. com. Y O U. So, what it does is it allows me or you, right, to basically leverage different AI models. So, Cloud is better at long form. ChatGPT is better at content strategy.

With this in mind, I can then create different mini agents on the same platform, leveraging different LLMs for different use cases, and it allows me to very clearly test which model is better for Facebook ad copy, because I can use the same prompt, just change the LLM behind it, and then I can figure out, hey, this is better ad.

This type of copy, this is better at that. So, these are tools that I really love leveraging to create content in a much faster way, which saves me so much time.  

Yeah. Well, you mentioned u. com and that's one of two platforms that has Deep Seek on their backend and accessible without some of the. Hmm.

Moderation that's happening in China or from China, I should say. Have you played with DeepSeek at all and seen any more fantastic results that beat out OpenAI?  

Personally, I have not, so I've heard a lot of great things about DeepSeek and how it creates content. That is something that I would love to test in the future. 

But I'm not one to quickly jump on the bandwagon whenever something is launched. I don't think you have to be the fastest at adopting it, but you have to figure out firstly, am I happy with my current tool set? What is a new use case? Why would this be better? Do I need to invest the time to research this?

So, the only perhaps potential reason why I would use it is if it's creating better quality content than what I currently have, but in my current workflows, I’m pretty happy with each of the tools and where they're at. So, I don't have too necessarily.  Quickly jump into the new tool.  

And sometimes it's not good to be first.

Look, everyone 

else.  

Fail and, you know, maybe get fined, you know, in the States somehow, I think people are getting fined for working with deep sea. Yes. Like jail time and. Heavy fines, just recent news, but something to look into, but you're in Singapore where, you know, different laws but, you know, we're very afraid of the Chinese threat. 

So, anyway, but, but what I read and seen somewhat, and I haven't, I haven't used it the different types of outputs. The go beyond words, right? You're a copywriter. So, you, you have your workflow and, you know, but, but, you know, the, the variety of outputs is really incredible. It is done through currently through, you know, three or four different platforms, but they do it all in one platform.

And so. You know, what I, what I think it's done is really shake up the American platforms or the, or they’re not necessarily all American. But the traditional AI platforms that have launched to figure out how do they compete with DeepSeek because they’re, they're figuring things out that the users want, right.

And that's. Those are always the winners. It's like those who aren’t first to market, they sit back, they watch what's going on. They watch the limits of some of these other platforms and the complaints and, you know, the wish and desires of the users. I wish I could do this. And they're all listening, right?

They're like, okay, now two years out.  Let's do tackle those problems. And there's, there's, there's a lot of good sense that comes out of not trying to be first and being in this, this AI race to the top of valuations, which is a tech bubble but really think about the consumer and the users and what they really want versus.

Kind of a one upmanship on the hockey, hockey sticks rise of innovation. So, I, I appreciate that about deep seek and I, I hope it's all true. And I hope maybe through perplexity and you. com that we as Americans can, you know, maybe use it without getting fined. It's all new. I don’t really, I haven’t delved into that subject yet as chat GPT would say 

Yeah, but these are exciting times, right?

I think one thing you also mentioned that was interesting is the fact that sometimes you need to find the tool that meets the needs. So, I want to talk about like AI use cases. When AI first launched, you have a lot of new tools, right? They are actually wrappers of chat GPT for different use cases, but what probably Hasn't been fully factored is how people are going to learn to interact with AI  and that actually takes time like the amount of Workflow changes the way you think the way you consume AI the way you work with it is almost like a behavioral change And it requires a new skill set.

So, the way that I function right now with AI is highly different from how I used to function without. Meaning I think of things in a much more systematic way compared to before. And in the past copywriting was quote unquote a creative process, right, where because it's creative, you should just be writing and you just sort of know the, the, like, intuitively, and that still holds true, right?

You can still write with intuition, but with AI, if you want to get it to work, you almost have to break down your own thought process into, like, Five steps of how you got from point A to point B. Something which you probably wouldn't have done before. And that's a new skill set that some people have to learn in order to use AI in the most effective manner. 

Yeah, I, you know, I think for us not to be lazy and, and challenge ourselves for fantastic results.  It's important to understand the connectedness between a multimodal approach and developing a workflow, understanding that workflow. And then. Stepping away from the computer completely or in your dream state, when you're sleeping, you start to tackle these problems and you have insights because you're connecting the dots as a human, the human brain is connecting the dots.

And then in the morning you wake up, Oh my God, I could do this and this and combine this and this. And I invented a new workflow.  And I figured that out, right? 

Yes, that's the feeling. 

Yes, that's humans in the loop. That's creative centered AI. And, and I think that it's important to step back.  Put the computers, shut them down, and just think, right?

And problem solve with your brain. And I think that's a very important message because It’s so easy to just like keep prompting and getting, you know, keep going, you know, keep in the feedback and, and you could spend, you know, 18 hours a day doing that. But you haven't given your brain the time it needs to relax and Absorb and internalize everything that's going on. 

So, because our, our brains are still pretty good at figuring things out, let them work, right? Let, but let them work on their own and then come back, right? The next day it's like, okay, I, I think I know how to do this now. And I, I think it's those insights that are really important in the, not only the adoption of AI, but.

To elevate the work right to go beyond what the machine can do to what I can do what I figured out using this technology, this software, they’re not robots. I haven't seen a robot in two years. So, I. I don't know why they keep talking about robots and showing robots. Right. Because it's just a computer interface.

It's like, right. It's a, that's a branding issue. I have I'm a brander, so it's like, you know, cool it with the robots. Okay. What are your thoughts and what are the, some of the feedback that you get about you know, AI adoption and helping people get over their fear? demystify it. That's a term that's thrown out a lot.

It's like, it's a mystery. How do we work with it? You know, are there robots back there behind the screen? Should I call them they or it, or, you know, should we be personifying this relationship or just be polite with please and thank you.  

Yeah, I always say please and thank you because you never know, right?

So just make sure you, I do that to humans. So why not with my AI, since I'm working with it every day. But I think one thing that's interesting is I, I would like to confine this topic because in the past, a lot of people will say that AI is not going to replace your jobs. I would say that AI is going to replace a huge number of jobs, but it will create new ones.

Right.  But in order to get there, you need to upscale. So, I'm, I'm, I feel so strongly about this because I personally have spoken to many AI industry experts.  Whenever they go into a company, the first question the business owner is going to ask is Will this reduce my hate count? So, from a business point of view, when you're a business owner or founder, cost cutting is still a huge part, right?

Increasing efficiency is still a huge part of whatever they are doing. So, if that is the frame of mind for a lot of the business leaders, then People who are employed, right, might have to start thinking, how do I navigate in this space? Because there are a lot of jobs in which maybe it's more repetitive, right, in which it's really just a sequence of events.

These jobs can be replaced, even right now, by AI.  It is going to continue to happen in the next few years, and as an individual, the responsibility then lies on ourselves of like, what am I going to do with that information? How do I upscale? And how do I stay ahead, right? So, I think people need to start building up new skill sets for this new wave.

The human, the creativity part will never be replaced, but As companies evolve, priorities will evolve, you know, the context in which you work will evolve, so we too have to evolve to then be able to fill those new roles or new positions that are going to emerge with AI.  

No, you bring up a great point because it's been proven in in history over the last two centuries, how disruptive technologies have created more jobs that offset the losses.

And so, this has always been true. Yeah, think about the Internet. How many jobs did that create, right? That didn't exist before social media, you know, how many jobs have been created? So yeah, that's been proven time again. You, you bring up a good point of if these employers, the first question they ask is how will this help reduce headcount?

That's a horrible opener, right?  You know, my retort has always been just like, well, Let’s keep the people and imagine them outputting 150 percent of a work product and or and they're less stressed because they're not working 12 hours a day. They're working eight hours a day. They're having a more balanced life, a work life balance.

And imagine the potential of these work new, these old workers who are now empowered with this technology that maybe. Their brain power can be used to tackle other problems, build new ideas, build new products and elevate your company to a whole other level that you just could never get to before because everyone was so busy, you know, and, and, and, and have this technology unleash the imagination of these balanced lives empowered by AI. 

To achieve new goals and tackle new problems. 

And I think that's the retort message to that employer. He says, Hey, how many hits can I lose? And it's like, well, you know, that's not. The right lens to look through this to, to look at this through. 

 Do you I absolutely agree. Do agree? Or 

is that, is that a crazy notion or

No, I, I, I am on the front of like, how do you become more productive as an individual? How do you maximize your team's efficiency? How do you unlock them for like greater business group? Right? So, I definitely really stand for that, to do that, right? You as a team member that needs to have the skillset to.

To bring that to the table, which is also then why it has to be a both ways thing, right? Your employers must have a certain mindset that's growth oriented, that's about maximizing instead of streamlining. But then again, the employees have to show what they can bring to the table. So, if, if, You have certain AI skill sets or you have certain expanded expertise, and when you bring that and you show that productivity and efficiency, right, of course, that the value is there.

So that's why we have this like mini window right now, where maybe in the next like three to five years, companies are still going to be. Trying to adopt AI, and as an individual, I would highly urge everyone to start learning how to adopt it yourself, so that when, when the time comes, you think in a certain way that's a bit different, you'd understand the processes.

And you will know how to evolve and adapt as your company grows and continue to bring that value to the table.  

Yeah, you bring up a great point. I believe that a top-down approach to AI adoption will not work. And it hasn't. Because the majority of companies have not created an AI policy, nor have they trained their employees yet all their employees, whether the bosses know it or not, or like, I better learn this stuff because I want to be prepared. 

Right. So that's the disconnect between top management and. The workers, the managers, right? And so, there's a theory, but I believe strongly, I think you need to come from the middle. I think you need to work with the managers. Right.  And find your heroes within that set of managers who can work with each other and work down and up the corporate ladder to show, Hey, this is what I'm doing with my department, my marketing department, low hanging fruit marketing, right?

And, and then you share those results within the company and then sales will go, Oh my God, I like what they're doing over there. I'm going to, I'm going to do that now. And it can be infectious, but it's from the middle. Cause the CEO is like, you know, I'm trying to run this whole ship. I, I'm not going to learn this stuff and they could delegate that, you know, there isn't any one person in an organization.

And it shouldn't be an IT person, you know, because the application is so vast beyond who's in charge of the servers.  So, I, you know, I, I just believe coming in from the middle, is it, do you find that, do you, do you agree? And you don't have to, but I, you know, it's a, it's a theory and an approach.  

I think it's important to have your champions so they could be.

At different levels, but you need those voices, right? If nobody is going to champion for it, then there is not going to be any change and you don't want to wait for that voice to be from the very senior management where like one day we're going to cut all of these people off and we're just going to create a new system, right?

So, I think the conversations need to start earlier. One thing that I highly recommend companies doing is doing an audit of their current workflow and processes. So of course, my specialization is in marketing, but there are so many areas in which you can consider already using AI. For example, your HR policies claims, your finances, expenses, like these are things that can be streamlined with the help of AI.

So instead of seeing AI as some, an afterthought, what if we see AI as part of our teams? And this is also a new concept that I learned from a lady called Lisa. She's amazing. So, she's a leading CMO and she has shared basically how to think of your organization as AI. Humans plus AI. So, imagine creating an organizational structure where you have an AI companion for every human, right?

So, you're already thinking about how to introduce it without replacing anyone, but yet maximizing the productivity of your team and they can work hand in hand.  

Yeah, love that. And I love the fact that the CMO did that. Again, I think marketing is the low hanging fruit because it can be so useful, right? I mean, obviously use a copywriter is like, yeah, marketing.

Hello. It's like fantastic tool. So next thing I want to get into with is now that we've gone, we've moved beyond, okay, there's these new platforms, open AI, Claude and, you know

you know, some of the independent tech companies, big tech has come in. Google Microsoft, Microsoft copilot. Okay. So now I would use chat GPT and fit in and remember, I'm not going to put everything in there, but I'm going to put enough in there that I need to extract. But I'm not going to put sensitive data in there because I, I don't know what that, what, what's being trained on what, right? 

Now enter Copilot. So now I open up Word in my daily work. I open up PowerPoint in my daily work and I see the Copilot little logo there, right?  Wanting to help you, right?  Okay. So, if I choose to do that, is.  It's a complex question. You know, is all of a sudden, my writing that I'm going to do enabled by Copilot in a Microsoft software situation. 

Is that going into their database, their LLM, and being trained on what I'm, I'm just trying to do my regular work, but I, I tweaked a paragraph using Copilot. And does my whole document then get fed into the system? Do you, do you know? Do you have an answer on that?  

I wish I had the answers as well, because that's something I would love to know.

Like I, I, and I think it's something that's going to be a bigger topic now, even if we're not looking at Microsoft Copilot, Google has also introduced its own suite of AI in all its systems. And because it's so accessible, which is great, it makes it easy for people to very quickly adopt it, right? But at the same time, where does the data go?

I'm not too sure about that. 

Right. See the I mean, Google's whole premise was, Hey, yeah, use YouTube, use Gmail. It's all free, right? People love it. I, I love it. I believe in the G suite, but there's a, there's, there is a price, you know, and it's the price that you've just given over everything to them and now layer into that use of AI within their software, their platforms.

All of a sudden, I'm not going to independent AI platform to do my little task and then coming back to Word, let's say. It's now integrated. They've made it convenient, right? It's like, oh, it's so, it's so damn convenient. Yes.  Adoption levels increase, but it's also deceptive. Right, because of the implications of, so did I just put my whole novel I'm working on into Google's database? 

I don't know, but they helped me organize my bibliography, right? So, it's just, you know, I, I, I'm, I consider myself an AI optimist, but also an AI pundit because I want to expose the good things and the bad things about what is happening. Give people some context and not just.  And say, Hey, it's all great.

Look, yeah, look what I can do. It's like, okay, yeah, it does that. But did you know this about it? Because you should read the terms and conditions and how do you find those ethically sourced LLMs and platforms to feel safe. With how you're using them and inputting stuff. I had to research avatar platforms, and I found HeyGen to actually be the most ethically sourced because they said, whatever you put in there, your video of your image, we can't use it to train and whatever output you create with your avatar.

We also will not train on it. And that was pretty great. Right. Made me feel safe and protective of my image.  So, but that's not necessarily the case with other avatar platforms because at the end of the day, all these companies, they want training data sets, all of them.  They all want that because we're, we're now in this. 

loop of it feeding on itself and creating synthetic data, which is, you know not original data. And so, it becomes, it becomes stagnant and not as creative.  What are your thoughts about ethics and finding those ethical platforms? And is that part of your process? 

Yeah, so I think for now there are still a lot of question marks in this space, a lot of gray areas, and even for things like visuals, right, that is another whole big world of like, hmm, can I actually use this image?

I do hope that eventually companies will be More transparent in their processes and like what you said about HeyGen, I think it's a great step forward for a company to take up that stance. And I think users are going to demand more and more of it, right? We will want to know where that information is going.

And where all that is captured. But at the same time, if you also think about, for example, the ads that we are being targeted and served on Facebook, it is also very highly targeted, very highly specific, and the big tech giants have also managed to create content that's really tailored to us. also train on a certain set of data.

So, the landscape will change, the market will change. Maybe what we can do as individuals is an actively seek out better platforms understand how they are communicating their policies and eventually when there is a safer platform or as a better option, then picking that as well as being more sensitive about the information we are put in.

I think these are the. Mini like guardrails you can put for now and, but it will really be dependent on what the bigger companies are going to do as we proceed and what people expect of them. 

Yeah, well, that's a great point. And I you know, I talk, you know, people talk about tech bubbles and those are really.

Investment bubbles, right? The valuations of companies that really have less to do with like people like you and I, who are just using it in our, the, a, we are in the AI adoption bubble. Okay.  That bubble is different than the tech bubble of the investment bubble.  The investments, there can be market fluctuation and all that, but it doesn't affect the fact that we like working with this stuff, and we'll continue.

And if companies come and go, fail, other ones pop up. We're going to jump on those other platforms and continue, try to continue our work, right? So that's a bubble that's not going to burst, I believe. And so, when people talk about the threat of the AI bubble, you're talking about the investment side and, and they, and they shouldn't.

They shouldn't look at that unless you are an investor heavily invested in NVIDIA, which took a big hit. Right? Then you, you can just continue with your work in AI and really not be phased by any of this. And so, you know, I think that's.  lesson for AI adoption is what bubble are you looking at? What are you talking about?

Because maybe you shouldn't worry about those things and, and just continue to experiment, play with purpose and produce at rates that you couldn't do before.  We're getting towards the end of our podcast, and I just wanted to give you the opportunity of how people can reach you. What are some of the appearances you might be appearing in, in terms of events or you know, conventions or anything like that, I want to give you the floor to do a little humble brag about what you're doing.

Yeah. Thanks for this. Correct. So, I run a consultancy called close with copy, like what I mentioned in the podcast. I love helping my clients to close clients. I love helping them sell with copy. Like copy to me is. A vehicle, but behind copy, there is strategy, there are audience insights, and there are basically ways to optimize your funnel, your workflows, your processes to get people to convert.

So, if you are ever looking for someone to optimize your own copywriting workflows, whether it's internally or externally to convert clients and build your brand. I'm the one that you might want to reach out to, and you can always look for me on LinkedIn, Audrey Cher, CHIA. And if you want to check on my website, its www does close with copy co and that's how you can reach me as well. 

Awesome, and we will put those links in the metadata, so they'll be there for people. So, listen, thanks, Audrey, so much, and thanks to all of you for tuning in, and catch more of our Realm IQ sessions on your favorite podcast platforms like YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, you name it and please follow and smash that subscribe button.

It's very important that you subscribe and or download. Download's a good thing, too. Boom. And so, you can also follow me and us around my queue on TikTok, LinkedIn, and now Blue Sky, people. Blue Sky is happening. 30 million subscribers, so it's a viable platform. So, thanks so much, Audrey, and have a great day in Singapore, and my night is beginning here.

Have a good evening, Curt. Thank you very much  for having me. 

Okay.